Joe Burnside Tests Out A Set Of New Tires

Tire Testing General Grabbers

Posted May 24 2010 07:56 AM by Mr8Lug
Filed under: Editorials, Editor's Blog

Joe Burnside is in the process of testing out a new set of General Grabber tires and he's blogging about it at the Diesel Place forum. Check it out.

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http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=372035

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Reader Comments:

1. If you have any questions post them here or on the dieselPlace wedsite and I will answer them the best I can.

Regards,
Joe Burnside

joeburnside - Posted May 25 2010 02:52 PM

2. hey i need some help i own a 04 chevy 2500HD but its a 6.0L gas an i cant find any web cites that hav a hole lot to offer for this truck can anyone help me

paulpoirierjr1019 - Posted June 4 2010 11:49 AM

3. You should go to www.DieselPlace.com They do have a section for gas trucks too. The folks that use the site are extremely helpful and knowledgeable. You can sign up for an account or just browse anonymously.

joeburnside - Posted June 6 2010 06:20 PM

4. hey,
I have a question in regards to using jet diesel fuel from a local airport in a '05 Chevy 2500 HD diesel? How will it affect the engine and the truck performance if I decide to use it? Some of the men working there use the fuel in there own trucks and put half jet and half gas station fuel. Is that safe for the motor?

ndneddie - Posted July 13 2010 10:20 PM

5. ndneddie - I found this post that will answer your question in great detail. The short answer, running jet diesel fuel will eventually damage your engine and components.
Joe Burnside
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-03/953774152.Ch.r.html
Posted By: Joseph Weeks, President, Thermal Products, Inc.

Free fuel sounds like a great idea, however there are several matters which
need to be considered. First, the fuel at the bottom of the tank probably
has dirt and other crud which can cause wear of the fuel injection system.
Assuming that you eliminate the dirt, then there is the question of
compatibility. I contacted Marketing Fuel Technical Service at Chevron
concerning your question. Their response is as follows:
"In regards to your inquiry about whether Jet A can be run in a diesel
engine, Chevron would never advise anyone to use a particular fuel in an
engine that was not designed for that fuel. We would advise that the
inquiry be made to the equipment (engine) manufacturer."

Remember, while there is only one basic Jet A species, there are several
kinds of diesel - diesel No. 1 and diesel No. 2 (amongst others). Jet A is
more like Diesel No. 1. Diesel No. 2 is the more common "diesel" fuel,
since it is the fuel used by vehicles "on-road".

All of the fuels are products of the refining process. One of the main
differences between them is their distillation boiling ranges. Diesel No. 2
has a higher (in temperature) boiling range and is more dense than Jet A
and/or diesel No. 1 (both of which have lower densities and lower
boiling range temperatures). A fuel which is less dense will have lower
fuel economy (less BTU's per gallon). All of this is "besides the point" as far
as the appropriateness of any of the three to perform in the engines that were
designed for their use. If the engine manufacturer indicates the use of only one
type of fuel, that is the fuel that should be used.

For further information please visit Chevron's INTERNET site at http://www.chevron.com.
There are some very informative publications at the site at http://www.chevron.com/chevr
on_root/prodserv (there is an "underscore" character after the second
"chevron" word). When you reach that site, click on the word "Fuels" and you
will then see a "Publications" option.

That said, we will break down your inquiries into a group of statements
that we have put together to answer others who have asked similar
questions:

Jet A, Diesel No. 1, and Diesel No. 2, are covered by different American
Society For Testing and Materials (ASTM) specifications. The diesel fuels are
covered by ASTM D 975, "Standard Specification for Diesel Fuel Oils". Jet A has
the designation of ASTM D 1655, "Standard Specification for Aviation Turbine
Fuels".

According to the ASTM specifications listed above, the sulfur limit for Jet
A is a maximum of 0.3 mass %. Because of an Environmental Protection Agency
1993 regulation, the specification for sulfur in "on road" Diesel No. 1 and
Diesel No. 2 is a maximum of 0.05 mass % - a large difference from the Jet A
sulfur level.

The EPA regulation would be broken if one were to use Jet A for "on-road"
Diesel. Jet A is also not taxed for "on-road" use, so would be illegal to
use in "on-road" vehicles and possibly illegal in some "off-road" uses as
well. Both the sulfur level and the tax issue need to be considered in a
legal sense when considering the uses of these fuels.

Another difference between the fuels is the viscosity. The ASTM D 1655
detailed viscosity requirement of Jet A is a maximum of 8 mm2/S (millimeter
squared/Seconds - [1mm2/S = 1 Centistoke]) at -200C. The ASTM D 975 viscosity
requirement of Diesel No. 1 is a minimum of 1.3 and a maximum of 2.4 mm2/S at
400C and of Diesel No. 2, a minimum of 1.9 and a maximum of 4.1 mm2/S at 400C.
It is hard to compare these, since the testing temperatures of the diesels do
not agree with that of the Jet A. However, the viscosities at 200 Centigrade and
in units "milliPascal/Seconds" (still another, and different unit measurement)
for the two fuels according to a national average of four semiannual surveys
taken from 1990-1992 are as follows:

Jet A & Diesel No. 1 1.33
Diesel No. 2 3.20

Jet A and Diesel No. 1 tend towards lower viscosities. Lower lubricity is
likely as the viscosity decreases. While this may not cause catastrophic instant
damage, it could cause long-term wear of pumps, etc.

Jet fuels have additional specifications that aren't required of diesel
fuels. A couple examples of these are the requirement of testing for
certain components and a volatility requirement. Some of the methods for
testing also vary from one fuel to the other. Basically, however, we have
pointed out the biggest differences. If you need more detailed comparisons,
please contact the ASTM society at their headquarters at 100 Barr Harbor Drive,
West Conshohocken, Pennsylvania 19428. They could provide you with copies of the
specifications. Their phone number is 610-832-9500.

Once again, we stress that you should contact the equipment manufacturers
and ask what fuels are proper for use in the engines you are curious about.
Also, you must make certain you are not breaking any legal regulations."

So the bottom line is that although Jet-A may not cause immediate damage to
a diesel engine and may allow the engine to run OK, its use may cause
premature wear or fouling of the fuel system, and you may be breaking EPA
regulations as well as not paying appropriate taxes. Outside the US,
differences in viscosity still mean that the use of Jet-A for Diesel No. 1
may cause early wear of the fuel system. Kind of like running 10 weight
oil in a car designed for 30 weight. So how much risk are you willing to
take, because no engine manufacturer or fuel supplier will take part of the
risk?

joeburnside - Posted July 18 2010 03:42 PM

6. Wow Joe...what a great answer...

Mr8Lug - Posted August 2 2010 07:46 AM

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